Can you shoot jacketed bullets (nosler ballistic tips) into sheet steel targets. I was thinking about buying some sheet steel and making some 4x12 targets to practice my groundhog aim. I was going to set them out at different ranges and blast away.

i have done this, but i also had an incident at close range requiring stitches on a friends head. the range was about 25 yds, gun was .223, bullet was jacketed sierra soft point and target was pig silouette. i believe the bullet hit a pockmark from a bullet dimple and part of the jacket came back and bonked my friend in the forehead. i quit shooting iron at short ranges(needless to say) but still may use them at 100 yds or more.

monty

i would probably be shooting from 100-275/300 yards. Any advice on what gauge/thickness to use i was thinking maybe 3/16 inch or 1/4

i would probably be shooting from 100-275/300 yards. Any advice on what gauge/thickness to use i was thinking maybe 3/16 inch or 1/4

At 50 yards, can put a hole though 1/4 cold rolled steel with a .22 Hornet (about as light as centerfire rifles get).

Unless that is more than just plain coll rolled sheet steel, I'd go with a lot more thickenss...or a lot more distance.

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There has got to be asome steel-critter shooters here that know the match target's thickness and steel-type.

Mild steel isn't going to cut it. You are going to need something like armor plate, something really hard and tough.

Even silhouetts set up for pistol shooting, tough as they are, can have holes put in them by rifles at 200 yards.....

Hi Guys,
Used to shoot a lot at steel, made mine out of 1/2" mild steel. At 200 yds. most high velocity rounds would nearly penetrate, 110 grain 270 loads go right through, same for the Swift and 22.250. Velocity seems to be the factor in making holes in steel. Next time I'll try T-1 or Astralloy.
Attached a photo of a 160 grain 7mm Barnes X and the steel plug from the plate and 110 grain 270 spitzer and plug.

Regards,
Bryan

Would the fact that the i am using and explosive type bulllets make a difference?

If you are going to use mild steel, get some 1" plate. I'm punching holes in 3/4" at 300 yards with 160 grain Noslers out of a 7mm ultra Mag.

Be extremely careful, hang them so the impact surface is at an angle to direct the bullet fragments down into the ground. I think over 100 yds you would be safe but the fragments travel a long way.

Without thinking I fired a 45 ACP FMJ at my steel target from 25 yards. It hit me in the extra padding around my middle aged belt line. Penetrated through two shirts and broke the skin. The bruise looked like a Carribean sunset from my breast bone to hip. The real problem was my wife, a nurse with military experience. When she finally saw it she indetified it as a gunshot wound instantly and the real trauma of the situation began.

Two ways of making a hole in steel: a hard core/steel penetrating round and pure speed. That little .22hornet that made it though the 1/4" steel was as fragile as jacketed bullets get...it burned it's way through. Inpact energy converted from kenitic to heat; out the other side of the steel was just a spray of molten metal.

Is an odd effect...3/8" rolled steel will usually just dent from a 45/70 hit (folds the flat sheet to concave with a crater at the center), the .22/250 burns on through creating a hole...if you deurr the hole, looks like you drilled it ith a dull bit.

Not a matter of just energy...444 round with a 240gr. bullet will churn up 3,000fpe+, but it won't cut through steel as well as a .223.

Don't shoot the targets at close range...some of the fragments tend to bunce back a good 25-50yards. Can angle the plate, but if unlucky enough to hit a pock mark/crater, then the fragments can still come right back at you. Had to pluck a 30-06 jacket fragment out of a guy's sternum after he shot a length of RR "fish" plate at 25yards...was just hanging there like he'd had his shirt thumb tacked (and the fragments are HOT).

3/8" cold rolled will do for most handgun work (excluding the single shot pistols using rifle rounds)..takes a beating, gets pocked and bent, but no holes..at 50yards. At 25yards, the risk of getting tagged AND hurt by the fragment are a bit high...at 50yards, can still get tagged, but with safety glasses, would be superficial.

We have a 14" x 20" armor plate 3/8" thick set out on a frame hanging at 200 yards and a 1/2" thick regular steel head/shoulders silhouette set out at 500 yards.

The armor plate only has one hole - its from a .416 Rigby solid. Most Jacketed bullets just explode on the target without making a dent. The 300 to 375 mags make small dents. But at 200 yards we've never had a safety problem.

However, even out at 500 yards, that regular steel silhouette is already ruined. Its been hit so many time there's a big hole in the middle. I expect it to break in half soon. Its been there maybe 4 to 5 months.

Ribbonstone -

Copper only reacts and "burns" through steel at hyper velocities. It is nothing you can achieve with a small arms weapon. It needs a high explosive charge behind it at point blank range to achieve those velocities.

And this is a chemical reaction between the copper and steel. It is not burning in it's classical sense. To "burn" a hole in the steel, you would need a ton of oxygen being focused at the point of impact.

Lead doesn't "burn" through steel at any velocity.

The math doesn't support the theory of a bullet burning through the steel. If all of the kinetic energy of the bullet was converted into heat energy, half of which is given to the steel, the other is absorbed by the bullet, there simply isn't enough heat to melt the steel. High temperature at the surface contacts maybe, but not enough heat to melt that much steel. If there was, you would see a flare of red-hot molten steel spray all over the place, and you would set your lawn on fire.

Most likely what you see in your swiss cheese plates is that the bullet sheared the steel. Depending on the alloy of the steel, it may have punched a plug of steel out, or it may have shattered a hole into several small pieces.

I have shot holes in 3/8 cold rolled plate with a 223, and have found the plug it knocked out.

The reason your 223 will punch steel better than the 444 is because you concentrate the force on a smaller surface area, combined with a more rigid projectile. The PRESSURE generated on the impact area for the 223 is MUCH greater than that of the 444.

Dave

Dave,
What distance were you shooting the 3/8 steel that you were shooting holes in.

Ribbonstone -

Copper only reacts and "burns" through steel at hyper velocities. It is nothing you can achieve with a small arms weapon. It needs a high explosive charge behind it at point blank range to achieve those velocities.

And this is a chemical reaction between the copper and steel. It is not burning in it's classical sense. To "burn" a hole in the steel, you would need a ton of oxygen being focused at the point of impact.

Lead doesn't "burn" through steel at any velocity.

The math doesn't support the theory of a bullet burning through the steel. If all of the kinetic energy of the bullet was converted into heat energy, half of which is given to the steel, the other is absorbed by the bullet, there simply isn't enough heat to melt the steel. High temperature at the surface contacts maybe, but not enough heat to melt that much steel. If there was, you would see a flare of red-hot molten steel spray all over the place, and you would set your lawn on fire.

Most likely what you see in your swiss cheese plates is that the bullet sheared the steel. Depending on the alloy of the steel, it may have punched a plug of steel out, or it may have shattered a hole into several small pieces.

I have shot holes in 3/8 cold rolled plate with a 223, and have found the plug it knocked out.

The reason your 223 will punch steel better than the 444 is because you concentrate the force on a smaller surface area, combined with a more rigid projectile. The PRESSURE generated on the impact area for the 223 is MUCH greater than that of the 444.

Dave
Physics seems right...shouldn't be more heat applied to the steel....shouldn't have used the term "burned".

The target set up behind the 3/8" steel wasn't touched by anything but tiny fragments...no plug. Shouldn't have used "burn" as there was no combustion or melting (well...the bullet may have), but there certainly weren't any large soild chunks coming through that plate..must have fragmented the steel to splinters along with the bullet.

Shot an old alternator (could have been ageneator from an older car/tractor) that was laying on the ground at an improvised range. Decided to take a crak at it from 65yards away with a .444 I was playing with that day. At the shot, there was a green falsh in the scope. I turned to my plinking buddy and asked, "Chief, did you see that?"

He had seen tehgreen flash as well. Walked over, and the lucky shot had enetered one of the vents on the alternator and impacted the wire coil. Was a crater in the wire, complete with blobs of molten copper splashed along the inside and on the sand. As you state, the hole wasn't all that deep...partly becasue of the "give" in a coil of wire.



Do understand it's the energy/area of application, which gives the small caliber high vel. round much more hard target penetration than large area bullets. Have been amazined at the amount of steel a .220Swft or 22/250 can get though....but rather disapointed by the realitive safety of targets behind that steel.

Back wehn 7.62X39 ammo had mild steel cores, loaded some to top speed in a .303Brit (can safely get a bit more than 2850fps). Different mechanisim at work, the CORE would make it through , but the holes would be core size (about .26cal). Moving on to old WWII AP .30-06 ammo, got the same effects...the core making the hole through a greater thickness of steel.

Good AP 30-06 will manage to get through a tempered leaf spring from a truck...not much else but AP ammo (at least shoulder fired) will manage that trick.

Hi-

I spent a good part of last year shooting steel with rifles and found that one inch wear plate, which usually rates over 400 brinell, stands up to anything when shot at 100 yards. Only the .223 or 22-250 could put a very small dent in it sometimes unless the edge was hit which might increase the damage a little more. Grater blade is even harder, over 500 brinell and if you have snow in your area you should be able to pick up a worn blade now and have it cut into a target.
I got my wear plate at the paper mill I work at but any welding shop should have some on hand and a few pieces of scrap should not be hard to come by. Try it and you will be impressed.

Kevin

Can you shoot jacketed bullets (nosler ballistic tips) into sheet steel targets. I was thinking about buying some sheet steel and making some 4x12 targets to practice my groundhog aim. I was going to set them out at different ranges and blast away.

I've had some experience with this.
We cut a life size deer target out of 1/2" steel and added another 1/2" to the heart lung area.
At 100 yards, .243-30-06 type rifle bullets go right through it.
We have not hung it from chain. This I think would take up some of the shock, or it would be better to use AR steel plating - more expensive but much stronger.

We are going to move our target out to 250 or 350 yards. Once it is hung properly, I don't think the bullets will penetrate.

But I would go with the stronger steel

Hang your targets and you'll get that familiar clang noise when you hit them. More fun.
Tom

Tom - Hanging a steel target of that weight will give it the ring everyone wants to hear, but the target is so massive it won't give or swing enough to prevent penetration that would occur if it was mounted solid. A full size deer out of 1/2 inch plate, and reinforced with another 1/2 inch???? Is that a couple hundred pounds? Unless you are shooting at it with a cannon, you probably won't see it move at all. Try a deer slug and see what that does.

I shot at a 3/8 target that was designed to fold back against a spring, and it performed as designed when it was accidently struck with a 400grain bullet from my S&W 500. It folded back nicely. But the aim was a 3/4 piece of steel that was set in front of it. (6" x 6" x 3/4") We assumed it would still fold back. Wrong. Even that small piece of steel was heavy enough to splatter the bullet and not push back on the spring target. It may have pushed back a little on the spring, but it certainly didn't jump like the spring target did by itself.

jb12string - I was maybe 5 yards from the target. I was free handing a 14" Contender, while standing behind a piece of plywood. I was only 16 at the time, so I was pretty invencible. The target was a 3/8" thick piece of round plate ... maybe 4 inches in diameter. Dad had tons of it, as it came from a local manufacturer where it was stamped out of some kind of framework, and was just scrap.

The hole was beautiful, and a little flared out at the rear. The front had a rim of steel curled away from the face, which at first made me thing it was the exit side. Until I remembered which side was facing me. The frightening part was that the bullet was a soft point Winchester. The jacket landed at my feet, completely intact, and inside out. It struck the wall of the garage I was standing next to. Missed me by about two feet. I think I still have it somewhere, even though it was... 16 years ago. I guess that works out, since I'm 32. Anyway, it was pretty neet to see the rifling on the inside of this mangled piece of copper tube.

Ribbonstone - if the backstop was only hit by small fragments, it makes me wonder what kind of steel the target was. Sounds like part of the hull of the Titanic. Brittle. Did you harden it? I know a guy who is still trying to harden some of his steel plate by water quenching after it is cherry red. He is still disappointed that he is shooting through it, not realizing that it is essentially too hard, and the wrong kind of steel to avoid getting brittle at that hardness.

Dave

Ribbonstone - if the backstop was only hit by small fragments, it makes me wonder what kind of steel the target was. Sounds like part of the hull of the Titanic. Brittle. Did you harden it? I know a guy who is still trying to harden some of his steel plate by water quenching after it is cherry red. He is still disappointed that he is shooting through it, not realizing that it is essentially too hard, and the wrong kind of steel to avoid getting brittle at that hardness.

Dave[/QUOTE]

Haven't a clue...just a chunk of non-descript garden varitiety "junk" from a large pile behind the guy's barn. Happend to have a section about 22" X 15" that was pretty much dead flat that we cut out into a vague "armadillo shape" and tacked a base to.

Beat up on it with handguns for a few months with few ill effects. Given enough hits it was a bit "bowed", and we'd flip it arround and shoot the other side. Would guess peening it with handugn bullets back and forth didn't help it's stucture.

There is a lesson to be learned here and I hope y'all will share it if the situation ever arrises:

We have some of the NRA small bore silhouette targets at our range. These targets are made from 1/4" steel plate and are in the form of chickens, pigs, turkeys and rams. No problem shooting them with .22 LRs but if left out unattended some yoyos just can't resist shooting one with a centerfire rifle. It ruins them every time! These targets are expensive to replace. Oh well, need to get off soap box now.

If you want to see realistic targets and avoid the potential problems with steel ie ricochets, piercing. Get some rubber belting such as conveyor belts. Cut out a animal shape, hang it from a thin wire or line when you shoot it will jump also it will give you a little practice with waiting until the shot is right if you have a stiff wind and it's blowing around ( a balloon on monofiliment will drive you crazy waiting for a shot.) The belting when shot because of the fabric content practically seals the hole back shut safer than steel and it will jump when hit.

gotta admitt conveyor belting is the go. I punch holes in 1/2 inch plate at 200 yards with my .308 no worries. now i have a 50 x 12 flat frame made with 1/2 inch conveyor belt bolted onto it then a 1 inch thick mild steel backing plate 4 inches behind that to stop the projectiles traveling past the target.

i just print out my silhouette targets from my computer and just stick them to the belting (very cheap). the belting moves when the projectile hits and ya get the autible 'plink' when the projectile hits the backing plate. I have the room to set my bench mounts out so my target never moves. so the weigth of the target is no option to me. If you require a removable target then look into stainless steel or spring steel something with a high tensile strength above grade 8.

an old safe door or powder magazine wall or door would suit. we have a 40 foot shipping container with the last 15 foot welded closed and full of sand for a indoor small arms and handgun range. very effective but useless for big bore toys.

if you go with the belt, make absolutley sure of your target and beyond, the steel plate wil lstop your bullet instantly, or very shortly thereafter.

what i'd do (i'm a welder for a locomotive repair shop) is to use scrap plates as close to 1/2" as possible and replace them every so often. nothing will be impervious and will show damage. AR or T1 steel plate may survive longer, but will be much more expensive.
a word of warning: when using conveyor belting, make sure that your .22's will penetrate and not ricochet. lower velocity rimfires can bounce off of hard rubber. (learned that the hard way too)

monty

I got my self a 6x12 piece of 1/2 cold rolled steel (about $7 worth) and welded a frame out of 3/4 square stock and hung it with 7/16th bolts on three links of 3/8th chain and shot it with my 10/22 at 100 yards and melted the paint off, then i moved it to 200 yards +/- and shot it with my .243 and my grandfathers .270 ( i would have tried the .223 but its in the shop) the .243 had about 50% penetration and the .270 was between 75% and 80%. after i get enough dimples in it, i think i will get some hard facing welding rods and fill up the dimples and try it to see how it goes.