HI , I have asked this question on another forum concerning the most effective recoil pad for use on a 444 Big Bore Winchester and the most prevalent answer was the Pachmeyer Deccelerator . What do yall think ?
        Also according to Paco Kelley the Winchester 444 Big Bore is capable of handling 50,000 Pressure opposed to the Marlins 40.000 Pressure. From what I have read this equates to a 150- 200 fps gain ! Given this do you think that 2650-2700 could be easily and safely achieved in the Big Bore with 280 LBT WFN?
                 Thanks guys , Craig

I'll have to concur with the Decelerator pad choice... by far and away the best choice for your M94BB in .444.  Hands down.

Now, about turning the throttle up on the .444 Marlin cartridge in your Winchester BB.   OUCH!!! That rifle already kills on one end and permanantly cripples on the other!  The recoil transferred from the Winchester is far more obnoxious than that of its Marlin contemporary.  I don't even like the thought of trying to push that 280g pill at 2650-2700 fps.  even if it was safe!

I've worked loads extensively with the .444 over the years, and the only powder that has delivered the kind of velocity thresholds we are discussing here within pressure limits was RL-7.   Other powders spiked pressures long before reaching the 2500 fps threshold with the .432"-280g WFNGC bullet... scarry pressures too I might add with certain powders.   RL-7 on the other hand continued with a nice steady, predictable curve to that 2500 fps level... but on heavily compressed powder charges!   I doubt you could seat and crimp the bullet with much more under it!

Lastly, why push it to 2650-2700 fps?   The .444 lever action carbines were never intended for much over 200 yard use.   I really doubt that there's anything in N. America that would notice the difference in that extra 150-200 fps... except perhaps your shoulder!   Too, I don't like the idea of S-T-R-E-T-C-H-I-N-G the pressure envelope that far!

Well, I'm an admitted .444 junkie, but I think you're asking not only too much from this cartridge, but perhaps for a whole passle of trouble as well wanting 2650-2700 fps out of a 280g WFNGC bullet in a .444 Marlin chambered gun.

My opinions of course, FWIW!

God Bless,

Marshall

Ditto on that Marshall,

I'm running about 2200 FPS with a 444S rifle and that seems fine by me. I could imagine what 2700 FPS loads would be like! LOL

You are talking about 3000 ft/lbs of muzzle energy at 2200FPS with this bullet already. And with that meplat design/diameter would leave a devastating wound channel.

Can't ask for much more than that out of this rifle. Let the bullet/meplat diameter do the work for you. Any further increased bullet weight will help with penetration but the 280 seems to be a good balance of penetration and velocity. IMHO

The Winchester may or may not be able to stand 50,000 CUP loads over the Marlin's 40,000 but why use loads that pound the crap out of you and the gun like that?

I'd do some load testing and settle for a load with good accuracy and velocity and let that nice flat bullet take it from there.

Welcome to the Board, Craig!

FWIW

Regards

:cool:

(Edited by Contender at 6:14 pm on April 15, 2001)

The action of the winchester may stand the load but the rest of the rifle won't. I speak from experience. I bought a new timber carbine last spring. I put a lot of rounds through it. Mostly 250 gr. cast and 240 JHP's. At round count 450 it started to come apart. The stock cracked on both sides at the wrist. It started snapping(failed to fire)occasionally. The forend and barrel band slid forward 1/8". The dovetail that holds the magazine came loose under the barrel.
To winchester's credit, they replaced that rifle with a new one. I scoped it and killed 2 deer with it last fall. I plan to "baby" this one and only use it for hunting.
Recently I purchased a marlin 444P to use for hauling around and heavy plinking. I have put about 250 rounds through the marlin with no ill effects. It appears that it will go the long haul.  I sure hope so. WhenI take it out I usually shoot at least 50 rounds through it per session.
To me the winchester needs beefier stocks with better inletting(fitting) and tighter machining tolerances when fitting the forend cross bolts and dovetails.

Marshall, how would you equate the recoil of the a warmed up Win BB vs a 416Rig?

Its been a while  for it to be fresh in my mind, but that  little bugger kicks with 300@2200 and 395s @ 1700. Am I crazy to even compare ? I like the little Timber Carbine though... its so tiny

-CAL

I will fully endorse the Decelerator as others have. One  is on order for my 444P. I will withold my opinions of Francis "Paco" Kelly's suggestions.

Happy Kaboomer, don't think one case is adequate  to evaluate a rifle's strenght such as your experience with the timber carbine.  I bought mine on advice of Tim Sundles, he said he used both the Marlin and the Timber for testing and load develop0ment and the timber held up better and in his experience was stronger.  

Hi , thanks for all of the advice and comments ! I guess i have a curious nature and just wanted to know the possibilities after all givin that even with 400-600 fps extra over the 44 mag the 444 doesnt get that much extre yardage with a 3 inch trajectory " bullet never over 3 inches or under 3 inches from line of sight " 50 yards or less!! Now is that worth the extra kick and cost? never the less we all like to know the extreme possibilities. IE you may ask the dealer who sold you the truck if it will really go 100 mph even though you mau not intend to drive it over 65 ! Thanks again and btw I really like this board and the courteous responses!, Craig